[Menvi-discuss] Some ideas for software tools

Chris Smart csmart8 at cogeco.ca
Wed Aug 7 22:02:39 UTC 2013 

hahahaha. I knew something like that would happen in this discussion!



At 06:01 PM 8/7/2013, you wrote:
>Assumptions!!
>
>
>
>On Aug 7, 2013, at 4:55 PM, Chris Smart wrote:
>
> > wow, thanks for all of those asumptions. I'm glad what you do 
> works for you.
> >
> >
> >
> > At 05:12 PM 8/7/2013, you wrote:
> >> Hello,
> >> I have been telling sighted people for years that they need to 
> stop
> >> reading the very inefficient written language and move to 
> listening to
> >> Voice Over or even better screen readers, but I know a total of 0
> >> sighted people who have actually opened a book and listened to 
> a whole
> >> book all the way through when it is not a human reading. They have
> >> never gotten to the point to where the words are going by so 
> fast that
> >> reading becomes something not unlike a movie with the most vivid
> >> pictures, smells and sounds scrolling through their mind.
> >> I have however read print, Braille, IPA and many of their 
> variants and
> >> believe reading has its place, but not in books or computers. 
> Labels
> >> yes, music yes, signs perhaps but less so now we are coming 
> out with
> >> computerized cars, name tags yes, labels yes. But not much 
> more than
> >> that. And this ridiculous spelling words where ridiculous can be
> >> pronounced 5 different ways is so impractical it makes me 
> cringe! IPA
> >> and Italian have the idea right.
> >>
> >> But in music textbooks the amount of musical examples is crazy 
> and the
> >> examples are really short and mostly simple. This is an escape 
> tone,
> >> this is a passing tone... Just hearing the examples would be like
> >> someone looking at a picture of a face rather than seeing the 
> person's
> >> face in real life. They both have their advantages and 
> disadvantages,
> >> but it is a lot easier to be reading a description of a 
> person's face
> >> and just look at a picture rather than read a description and 
> see the
> >> real thing.
> >> I would jump at the opportunity to have sound inserts in books 
> and it
> >> would most certainly make me want to read my theory textbooks. 
> (read
> >> to me means the interpretation of sensory retrieved data into my
> >> mind). I can prove that learning most things in school by ear 
> works
> >> because I graduated high school with a 4.2 GPA and carry a 
> 3.98 GPA in
> >> college, so it is a moot point on what medium one inputs data into
> >> their mind.
> >> If I really wanted to, I could memorize my song from hearing it in
> >> words, but it would be very annoying and time consuming.
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Brandon Keith Biggs
> >>
> >> On 8/7/13, Marc Sabatella <marc at outsideshore.com> wrote:
> >> > On Aug 7, 2013, at 12:58 PM, Leena Dawes 
> <leena.salim at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Exactly. However, even sighted people will make the 
> distinction. "Do
> >> >> you listen to books on tape?" is a common question as 
> opposed to "Do
> >> >> you read books on tape?" This isn't reading because 
> spelling, grammar,
> >> >> and other important aspects of literacy aren't learned.
> >> >
> >> > FWIW, as a sighted person, I'd agree that there is something 
> of a
> >> > distinction between reading a book versus hearing it read on 
> tape, but I'd
> >> > also say this is a *very* different distinction than the one 
> that exists
> >> > between listening to music and reading it.
> >> >
> >> > Whether you read a book or hear it read on tape, you are 
> getting essentially
> >> > the same information out of it: the actual contents of the 
> book.  No one
> >> > then expects you to "perform" that book - to read it 
> yourself later.  And
> >> > even if they did, I'd argue that there would be very little 
> difference
> >> > between learning to perform a book by reading it versus 
> learning it by
> >> > listening to it.  Assuming it was being read accurately, 
> you'd still learn
> >> > the exact same sequence of words, regardless of how complex 
> the book was.  A
> >> > book is essentially just a libear stream of words, and while 
> maybe you
> >> > wouldnt be sure of the location of every last comma, in 
> practice that is
> >> > normally justnnot that relevant - the comma is an aid to 
> understanding, but
> >> > that understanding would come just as easily from a tood 
> reading.
> >> >
> >> > But in the case of music, I don't care how good your ears 
> are - you are
> >> > *not* likely to learn every single note of that piece just 
> by listening to
> >> > it.  So your eventual performance of it will be an 
> approximation.  Sure, for
> >> > sufficiently simple pieces, the approximation might be 
> essentially perfect
> >> > (depending on how accurate the recorded performance you 
> learned from was),
> >> > but you'd never know to what extent things like dynamics and 
> other
> >> > interpretive things were just accidents of how that 
> performer played it
> >> > versus what the composer actually specified.  And yes, for 
> pop music or jazz
> >> > or other music that is not normally fully notated in the 
> first case, then
> >> > even reading the music will mean you are learning one arranger's
> >> > interpretation of the song rather than the actual essence of 
> the song, which
> >> > might indeed be better learned by ear.
> >> >
> >> > Still, there exists a huge amount of music for which 
> lisening to it does not
> >> > convey nearly the same level of information as reading it, 
> from the
> >> > perspective of allowing you to fully understand or reproduce 
> it.  So if
> >> > someone says "listening is a form of reading", I'd say yes, 
> but only to a
> >> > certain extent.  It might tell you everything you need to 
> know about
> >> > extraordinarily simple pieces, or most of what you need to 
> know about
> >> > somewhat more complex pieces, but at some point it is 
> guaranteed to fall
> >> > short.
> >> >
> >> > Marc
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Please visit www.menvi.org/donate.html  to make a voluntary 
> contribution to
> >> > MENVIs work.
> >> > -
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> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Brandon Keith Biggs
> >>
> >> Please visit www.menvi.org/donate.html  to make a voluntary 
> contribution to MENVIs work.
> >> -
> >> ---------
> >>
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> >
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