[Menvi-discuss] Some ideas for software tools

Wed Aug 7 22:01:07 UTC 2013

Assumptions!!

On Aug 7, 2013, at 4:55 PM, Chris Smart wrote:

> wow, thanks for all of those asumptions. I'm glad what you do works for you.
> 
> 
> 
> At 05:12 PM 8/7/2013, you wrote:
>> Hello,
>> I have been telling sighted people for years that they need to stop
>> reading the very inefficient written language and move to listening to
>> Voice Over or even better screen readers, but I know a total of 0
>> sighted people who have actually opened a book and listened to a whole
>> book all the way through when it is not a human reading. They have
>> never gotten to the point to where the words are going by so fast that
>> reading becomes something not unlike a movie with the most vivid
>> pictures, smells and sounds scrolling through their mind.
>> I have however read print, Braille, IPA and many of their variants and
>> believe reading has its place, but not in books or computers. Labels
>> yes, music yes, signs perhaps but less so now we are coming out with
>> computerized cars, name tags yes, labels yes. But not much more than
>> that. And this ridiculous spelling words where ridiculous can be
>> pronounced 5 different ways is so impractical it makes me cringe! IPA
>> and Italian have the idea right.
>> 
>> But in music textbooks the amount of musical examples is crazy and the
>> examples are really short and mostly simple. This is an escape tone,
>> this is a passing tone... Just hearing the examples would be like
>> someone looking at a picture of a face rather than seeing the person's
>> face in real life. They both have their advantages and disadvantages,
>> but it is a lot easier to be reading a description of a person's face
>> and just look at a picture rather than read a description and see the
>> real thing.
>> I would jump at the opportunity to have sound inserts in books and it
>> would most certainly make me want to read my theory textbooks. (read
>> to me means the interpretation of sensory retrieved data into my
>> mind). I can prove that learning most things in school by ear works
>> because I graduated high school with a 4.2 GPA and carry a 3.98 GPA in
>> college, so it is a moot point on what medium one inputs data into
>> their mind.
>> If I really wanted to, I could memorize my song from hearing it in
>> words, but it would be very annoying and time consuming.
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> 
>> On 8/7/13, Marc Sabatella <marc at outsideshore.com> wrote:
>> > On Aug 7, 2013, at 12:58 PM, Leena Dawes <leena.salim at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Exactly. However, even sighted people will make the distinction. "Do
>> >> you listen to books on tape?" is a common question as opposed to "Do
>> >> you read books on tape?" This isn't reading because spelling, grammar,
>> >> and other important aspects of literacy aren't learned.
>> >
>> > FWIW, as a sighted person, I'd agree that there is something of a
>> > distinction between reading a book versus hearing it read on tape, but I'd
>> > also say this is a *very* different distinction than the one that exists
>> > between listening to music and reading it.
>> >
>> > Whether you read a book or hear it read on tape, you are getting essentially
>> > the same information out of it: the actual contents of the book.  No one
>> > then expects you to "perform" that book - to read it yourself later.  And
>> > even if they did, I'd argue that there would be very little difference
>> > between learning to perform a book by reading it versus learning it by
>> > listening to it.  Assuming it was being read accurately, you'd still learn
>> > the exact same sequence of words, regardless of how complex the book was.  A
>> > book is essentially just a libear stream of words, and while maybe you
>> > wouldnt be sure of the location of every last comma, in practice that is
>> > normally justnnot that relevant - the comma is an aid to understanding, but
>> > that understanding would come just as easily from a tood reading.
>> >
>> > But in the case of music, I don't care how good your ears are - you are
>> > *not* likely to learn every single note of that piece just by listening to
>> > it.  So your eventual performance of it will be an approximation.  Sure, for
>> > sufficiently simple pieces, the approximation might be essentially perfect
>> > (depending on how accurate the recorded performance you learned from was),
>> > but you'd never know to what extent things like dynamics and other
>> > interpretive things were just accidents of how that performer played it
>> > versus what the composer actually specified.  And yes, for pop music or jazz
>> > or other music that is not normally fully notated in the first case, then
>> > even reading the music will mean you are learning one arranger's
>> > interpretation of the song rather than the actual essence of the song, which
>> > might indeed be better learned by ear.
>> >
>> > Still, there exists a huge amount of music for which lisening to it does not
>> > convey nearly the same level of information as reading it, from the
>> > perspective of allowing you to fully understand or reproduce it.  So if
>> > someone says "listening is a form of reading", I'd say yes, but only to a
>> > certain extent.  It might tell you everything you need to know about
>> > extraordinarily simple pieces, or most of what you need to know about
>> > somewhat more complex pieces, but at some point it is guaranteed to fall
>> > short.
>> >
>> > Marc
>> >
>> >
>> > Please visit www.menvi.org/donate.html  to make a voluntary contribution to
>> > MENVIs work.
>> > -
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>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> 
>> Please visit www.menvi.org/donate.html  to make a voluntary contribution to MENVIs work.
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